Welcome to EnviroDIY, a community for do-it-yourself environmental science and monitoring. EnviroDIY is part of WikiWatershed, a web toolkit designed to help citizens, conservation practitioners, municipal decision-makers, researchers, educators, and students advance knowledge and stewardship of fresh water. New to EnviroDIY? Start here

Mayfly v1.1 technical questions forum thread

Home Forums Mayfly Data Logger Mayfly v1.1 technical questions forum thread

Viewing 17 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #16619
      Shannon Hicks
      Moderator

      This is the forum thread to ask general technical question about the Mayfly v1.1 board.  If you’ve got a basic question such as what are the board’s features or how it differs from previous versions, this is the place to ask.  If you’ve got a more complicated question or issue, then it is probably best to start your own thread.  The goal of this thread is to be a great information resource for basic questions about the new v1.1 board that are common to all users.

      For questions about purchasing and availability of EnviroDIY products, ask those on the dedicated Status and Availability forum thread if the aswer isn’t readily apparent from the table on the main EnviroDIY Hardware Status and Availability page.

    • #16615
      mbullard
      Participant

      Hi Shannon,

      Is there a topic describing changes from Mayfly V1.0 to V1.1?  If not, can you describe?

      Thanks,

      Mike

    • #16616
      Shannon Hicks
      Moderator

      The only difference between versions is stated in the first paragraph of the blog post:  the only major change being the circuit that provides the switchable 12 volt boost output was redesigned to provide a higher power output. And 2 minor changes: one set of pin labels were slightly change and one solder jumper was added to the back of the board for an optional battery-measuring feature. (see more at Details and Specs)

    • #16617
      mbullard
      Participant

      Thanks!

    • #16745
      Jim Moore
      Participant

      Hi @shicks  I got my 5 pack of the v1.1 boards today and I noticed that:

      • Removed External/Lipo slide switch since it’s no longer needed

      Does that mean I can no longer power the Mayfly from a 12 V supply?  I have an application for water sampling and the pumps run on 12V and they are controlled by the Mayfly so I can power the whole system with a 12V utility lead acid m/c battery.

    • #16746
      Shannon Hicks
      Moderator

      That is correct, the Mayfly v1.0 and 1.1 boards do not have a separate external power input for 4v to 12v sources like the v0.5b boards.  This is because the main voltage regulator on the v0.5b board that accepted that wide range of voltage was discontinued by the manufacturer, and the new voltage regulator doesn’t accept that high of an input voltage.  However the tradeoff is that the new regulators have double the current output (1 Amp instead of 500 mA).

      To power a Mayfly v1.0 or v1.1 board from a 12v battery, I’d suggest a 12v-to-5v power adapter with a USB-C plug on the end, and just plug it into the Mayfly’s USB port, and preferably one with a low quiescent power draw so that it doesn’t waste too much power on the dropdown.  I think a few people on the forum here have recently mentioned adapters that they’ve had either good or bad results with. Something like this might work, but I haven’t test this exact model so performance results with a Mayfly aren’t guaranteed.   You should also turn off the dip switch (after programming and when you’re ready for deployment) for the USB LED because it’ll save several mA of current for the LED and about 10mA of current for the CP2102 USB adapter chip that is powered anytime the Mayfly v1.0 or  v1.1  is powered by a USB cable.

      The other improvement of the new Mayfly boards when paired with the new sim7080 LTE cell boards is that these cell boards no longer require a direct connection to a 3.7v lipo battery like the Digi LTE boards did with the custom adapter board.  Those older setups were harder to power from a 12v battery because you still needed to provide a separate Lipo battery for powering the LTE board.  Now with the new sim7080 LTE cell boards, everything can be powered from just the 5v USB connector with no external lipo necessary.

      • #16805
        David Lutz
        Participant

        Shannon,

        I ordered several boards in the 1.0 release in the fall as replacements for 0.5 boards that are currently in the field. Our setup for those involved using DIN rails to connect large marine cycle batteries so we could keep our terrestrial stations operational during the winter. So, we used the 12v regulator on the 0.5 board and it has worked really well.

        For the 1.0 boards, I wonder if we could order a bare wire version of the step down module you linked, and then just connect that to a JST connector for where the solar panel input is. Can you think of any issues that may arise with that type of setup?

        Sincerely,

        Dave

        • #16806
          Shannon Hicks
          Moderator

          Powering the Mayfly v1.0 and v1.1 from the solar jack only would not be recommended because the power input circuit was not designed to operate that way.  The most electrically efficient way is to use the 12v-to-5v converter and connect it to the USB-C jack and then deactivate the USB interface circuitry with the dip switch as explained above.  The Mayfly will not operate properly if you only provide power to the solar jack with no 3.7v Lipo connected to the LIPOBATT jack.

        • #16810
          David Lutz
          Participant

          Thank you so much Shannon!

          One very minor last question – for the DIP switch, that would be turning the USB DIP to ‘off’ for the purposes of LED operation, correct? The ‘Power’ DIP switch would remain ‘on’?

          Thank you!

          Dave

        • #16811
          Shannon Hicks
          Moderator

          The dipswitches are mainly there to let people know their board is working during initial testing or desktop deployments.  Anytime a board is deployed in the field as a “sleeping” station, power savings are important during the sleep period.  So I put the dipswitches on the new versions of the Mayfly to allow people to deactivated the LEDs.  The dipswitch for the green LED only cuts power to the green LED and nothing else, but it will save you about 2 mA.  The orange LED is only on if power is being supplied through the USB jack, like when connected to a computer or when powering from the USB jack like what that converter will do.  Whenever the USB jack is powered and the USB dipswitch is on, the LED is on plus the USB converter chip, which draws some not-insignificant power, so turning off the USB dipswitch will save power and prevent the USB converter from being on constantly.  However, you’ll just have to remember to turn that dipswitch on again in the future if you ever decide to reprogram that Mayfly or want to connect to the Serial Monitor to see some output.

          There’s a description of the dipswitches and all the new circuitry on the Mayfly Hardware Details page.

    • #16752
      Jim Moore
      Participant

      Thanks!  I just ordered two.  My four port sampler project uses 12V motors which draw about 0.4A so I guess that would be an option to use the 12V output and LiPo 3.7V batteries.

      I assume this converter uses switching so it should be reasonably efficient.  I’ll le you know how they work.  Good old amazon – I should get them tomorrow!

    • #16753
      Shannon Hicks
      Moderator

      As stated on the Details and Spec page, the Mayfly v1.1 can only source about 100mA from the 12v output, so if your motor draws 400mA, you’ll need to power the motor directly from your 12v source and not from the Mayfly.

    • #16807
      Jim Moore
      Participant

      @shicks.  I tested the converters you recommended and they appear to work as expected:

      dropout voltage is 8 Volts and will support input voltage to 31.5 V (max on my bench PS).

      No load draw is 3.64 mA at 12 V and 2.83 mA at 31.5 V.

      A lower cost option is a three terminal non-isolated converter at $2.76 ea vs $12 for the PlusRoc.

    • #16977
      neilh20
      Participant

      My USB connect to a rev1.1 board appears to be failing.

      It was working, and now its stop connecting to the PC, stops even causing an audible ding.

      If I take the same USB C cable and plug it in to the USB C of a Rev1.0A3 it sometimes works. Usually causes an audible ding, but sometimes doesn’t appear as a com port.

      I’ve rebooted my PC twice, and left the Rev1.1 board powered off overnight to see if it might recover.

      Just wondering any suggestions  for what might be the issue, or way of checking the driver.

      I am seeing the boards work through the FTDI connector.

      • #16984
        Shannon Hicks
        Moderator

        Are you saying you’ve got a bad cable or a bad Mayfly?  Have you tried a different USB-C cable?  The pins in USB-C connectors and cables are extremely small and are easy to fail.  And when the pins in a cable’s connector get bent or damaged, we’ve seen them inflict damage on brand-new boards, so I’d suggest trying a new cable or two.

    • #16985
      neilh20
      Participant

      Suspect Mayfly1.1

      The cable I was using also went bad and I’ve marked it as suspect – its a distinctive pink cable.  I’ve inspected the Mayfly USB c on Mayfly1.1 with an Eye Loupe, and it is hard to inspect but nothing jumps out, seems OK.

      I did have a USB current monitor in the testing before hand, and the current had gone up to 1.2A while charging a 2.2Ahr battery – but difficult to know if it was related. However the Mayfly options are not set to do a high charge, just 0.5A.

      I switched to Linux Ubuntu to get more details, and a sturdy USB-C interface and I get with working White Cable into Mayfly1.0

      dmesg

      [20236.503620] usb 5-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3

      [20236.503624] usb 5-1: Product: EnviroDIY Mayfly USB to UART Controller

      [20236.503627] usb 5-1: Manufacturer: Silicon Labs

      [20236.503630] usb 5-1: SerialNumber: 0001

      [20236.565048] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbserial_generic

      [20236.565911] usbserial: USB Serial support registered for generic

      [20236.586585] usbcore: registered new interface driver cp210x

      [20236.586749] usbserial: USB Serial support registered for cp210x

      [20236.586863] cp210x 5-1:1.0: cp210x converter detected

      [20236.594710] usb 5-1: cp210x converter now attached to ttyUSB0

       

      but then insert into Mayfly1.1 it  doesn’t respond on the USB. It does get powered,

      I think I have all the switches right, but here is a video https://photos.app.goo.gl/2n43i7qjLGmwbiQz7

       

       

    • #17282
      Dawn
      Participant

      I need to calculate the expected power consumption for a 10 month deployment, fully battery powered (no solar). Where can I find specs on the Mayfly power consumption? I realize that it will vary depending on dip switch settings (as Shannon mentioned above), so data to calculate power consumption based on their settings would be amazing.

      Thanks – Dawn

      • #17283
        Shannon Hicks
        Moderator

        We’ve release several different Mayfly Data Logger hardware versions in the past few years, so I’d need to know which version you’re using.   I’m assuming a v1.0 or 1.1 since you mentioned deactivating the LEDs using the dip switches.   But it also depends on the sampling interval you’re planning to use (time between measurements when the Mayfly is sleeping), active sample duration (time it takes to make a sensor reading) and the total time the Mayfly will be awake during the sampling and recording/transmitting period, what sensors you’ll be using, will you have a microSD card on board that you’ll write to every sample, will there be a telemetry module (wifi, cellular, radio, etc), and what’s the temperature range the station will be subjected to during the deployment.

    • #17284
      Dawn
      Participant

      Yes, on all those dependencies. I’ve ordered but haven’t received the Mayfly 1.1. I need to choose the sampling interval and battery mAh for the system so that we can get the most data over the deployment period with plenty of spare power capacity to ensure data collection at the end of deployment, which is the most important.

      I have all the mA pull for the Atlas sensors and their electrical isolation boards. I’ll be using a Whitebox T1 (https://atlas-scientific.com/electrical-isolation/whitebox-t1/) for some of them and have asked for that power draw. It has an integrated SD card port. There won’t be any telemetry as we’re deploying them in an Antarctic lake and retrieving them after ~9 months. The temperature will be 1.0° C (the temperature of the lake water) plus the heat produced by the electronics in the underwater housing.

      In looking at batteries, I think I’m going to power the Mayfly, Whitebox, and 4 additional sensors separately. Thus, I need to know what the Mayfly will draw under my conditions to choose an appropriate power source.

      • #17289
        Shannon Hicks
        Moderator

        Mayfly v1.x power usage (with no external sensors attached) and both LED dipswitches off (the brown/white slide switches between the main power switch and the vertical SD card socket) is as follows:

        Mayfly current when board is powered and idle: 6.5 mA
        Mayfly current when MCU put to sleep and no microSD card in socket: 0.27 mA (or 270 uA)
        Mayfly current when asleep with microSD card in the socket: 0.43 mA (or 430 uA)

    • #17292
      Dawn
      Participant

      Thank you so much, Shannon!

    • #17293
      RogerS
      Participant

      This may have been asked already.

      The Mayfly v1.1 board.  What is the temperature range that this board can stand for a closed up box?   Also, we have the 4400mAh LIPO battery, Operating and charging with the solar panel.  What is the min and max temperatures can this battery stand with a closed up box?

      Thanks,

      Rogers

      • #17295
        Shannon Hicks
        Moderator

        The components on the Mayfly circuit board are rated to withstand the industrial temperature range of -40C to +85C.  Here in Pennsylvania, our loggers don’t normally see that full range during normal deployments, but this summer we frequently reached almost 60C with one of our loggers that is mounted in an open field inside a clear plastic Pelican case.  Our other nearby stations in the standard opaque tan Pelican cases reach around 40C most summer days.  In previous winters they measured down to -25C with no problems.  Likewise, the lipo battery packs have done well in all the stations except ones that have condensation in them, because we’ve found that the blue 4400mAh battery packs are susceptible to damage from being exposed to moist environments because the metal tabs under the plastic end caps will rust very easily and cause the battery to open-circuit.  In stations that stay dry inside, usually with the help of desiccant packs, can use the same battery for multiple years with no problems.  We’ve got several stations that are still using the same Mayfly and lipo pack from 5 years ago and have been in continuous operation with no issues.

    • #17298
      neilh20
      Participant

      For the battery, seems to me there are two engineering approaches, specification and characterization.
      For the specified battery 4400mAh https://www.adafruit.com/product/354
      which has a listed data sheet from the manufacturer – https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/product-files/354/C449_-_ICR18650_4400mAh_3.7V_with_PCM_20140728_APPROVED_8.18.pdf
      it has a defined “Operating Temperature” of Charge: 0-45C, and Discharge -20 – 60C.
      If you go outside those parameters, for too long (!) – some may still operate – but now its characterization as to how many will operate.
      Of course manufacturers do characterization upfront on their products, to be able to come up with a specification they stand by across all that product range.

    • #17321
      RogerS
      Participant

      When I first received the Mayfly V 1.1 a few weeks ago, I hooked up the all of the connections: Battery, Solar Panel, and sensor.  Everything worked fine.   Over the last week I have noticed that the yellow solar charging LED is not lit when the Sun is out.  However looking at the CSV generated file the voltage is higher like the panel is charging the battery and the voltage is lower when the Sun is down.

      I have checked the Solar Panel to external cable connection, the connection to the Mayfly board.  Everything looks OK.

      Is the LED light just burned out?  Does the board have a malfunction?  Or do I just keep an eye on the voltage levels like I am doing?

      Thanks for your help, Roger

      • #17331
        Shannon Hicks
        Moderator

        As Neil mentioned above, the yellow LED that is labeled SOLAR only indicates when a charge current is being applied to a battery, so if a battery if fully charged (~4.2v), the LED will not be on.  The charging circuity of the Mayfly v1.1 boards is configured so that the solar panel provides voltage directly to the Mayfly’s main power regulators when the sun is out (and also charges the battery) and it uses the Lipo battery as kind of a “backup” source in case the Mayfly draws more current than the panel can provide.  When there’s insufficient power collected by the solar panel (like at night or in really shady locations) then the main power for the Mayfly comes from the battery.   If you’re using analog pin A6 to monitor the input voltage, you’ll see the raw battery voltage at night (anywhere from 3.5v to 4.2v), and during the day you’ll usually see something between 4.1v and 4.25v (depending on the amount of sunlight).  In the attached graph image below, you can see the raw battery voltage is around 3.85v.

        You can actually get useful information from this plot like that because it shows you what days were sunny and what days were cloudy, which could help you understand why the underlying raw battery voltage might increase or decrease over time.  For example, in the plot below you can see it was completely sunny on September 9, mostly sunny on Sept 10, totally cloudy on Sept 11 (no charging at all), and mostly sunny on the 12th and 13th.  Every station is going to have a different charging pattern based on tree canopy, time of year, weather, obstacles, etc, but having the graph showing the input voltage to the Mayfly can be very useful for monitoring the overall status of a station.  Also, if a Mayfly is being powered directly through its USB port (with or without a Lipo also connected to the Lipo socket), then the voltage measured by the analog A6 input will show 4.95v.

        If you would rather monitor the raw Lipo battery voltage and not see the swings of the solar panel (or USB) input, then you can follow the directions mentioned below, which come from the Mayfly Jumper Settings page.

        SJ27: Analog pin A6 connected to either combination Voltage in (default) or direct Lipo battery socket. The default setting works best so that the Mayfly can sense the input voltage of whichever source is highest. With just a Lipo connected, A6 will see the battery voltage (~3.7v). If a solar panel is connected, then A6 will see approximately 4.2v during full sun. If a USB cable is connected, A6 will see 4.9v. If you want to see only the raw Lipo battery voltage independent of the higher voltage from the solar panel, change the solder jumper to Lipo.

        • #17333
          RogerS
          Participant

          Thanks for the great answers.   These are really helpful.  There are so many things to dig into with this system.  It is easy to miss some of your notes and instructions.   I am finding that it requires a lot of deep diving into information.    I am trying to build a process for our folks to follow that will be simple to understand.   There are a lot of people with no hardware or Unix experience. We are also going to have to get all the data manually and upload manually.  There is no cell service in 99% of our device locations.

    • #17325
      neilh20
      Participant

      @rogers1313 my systems only have the Yellow led ON when actually charging. If the battery is charged, not charginng then it is OFF. The description in “Section S”, beneath the pics https://www.envirodiy.org/mayfly/hardware/details-and-specs/ says

      A yellow LED (labeled CHARGE) will light anytime the battery is being charged. Once a battery is fully charged, the yellow LED will go out, indicating that charging is done.

      • #17334
        RogerS
        Participant

        Thanks for this answer, too.    It is most appreciated.

         

         

Viewing 17 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.